Ogg Vs Mp3 with Linux.

[Winston Rectus]

I have a client who would like all of his work delievered in Ogg format
at 128Kbps.
As I am not too familiar with Ogg I would like to know what others
think of the quality and also the size of the files?
Is Ogg a viable platform or should I suggest something else.?

I am using Linux with Ardour hard disk recording system and the Jammin
mastering plugin set.
Apologies for my poor English.
Winston

[martin griffith]

On 13 Aug 2005 09:21:10 -0700, in rec.audio.pro "Winston Rectus"

Post by Winston Rectus
I have a client who would like all of his work delievered in Ogg format
at 128Kbps.
As I am not too familiar with Ogg I would like to know what others
think of the quality and also the size of the files?
Is Ogg a viable platform or should I suggest something else.?
I am using Linux with Ardour hard disk recording system and the Jammin
mastering plugin set.
Apologies for my poor English.
Winston

try here for an explanation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg-Vorbis
many links about the system



martin

[Lorin David Schultz]

Post by Winston Rectus
I have a client who would like all of his work delievered in Ogg
format at 128Kbps. As I am not too familiar with Ogg I would like to
know what others think of the quality and also the size of the files?
Is Ogg a viable platform or should I suggest something else.?

There's nothing wrong with Ogg. It sounds about the same as mp3 with
slightly smaller file sizes.

The problem is that it's not a universal format. Geeks will have
players that support the Ogg format, but most "ordinary" people won't.
Anyone who has a computer will have a player that supports mp3.

If the target audience is a limited group known to have players that
support it, Ogg is fine. If the target is a more universal audience,
I'd recommend sticking with mp3.

[n***@gmail.com]

The MP3 format has patents covering it which are being actively
enforced, if I recall correctly. With OGG, since it is free of patents,
free of secrets and not tied to any one company, people are guaranteed
to be able to do useful things to their audio in the future and
guaranteed that programs will support it.

Of course, end listeners don't care (until they can't access their
files in a few years, as happens again and again with Company X's
software).. if you deliver your audio in MP2 format
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP2_%28format%29), the files should work
in any MP3 player and also be free of patent troubles unlike MP3.

[Blind Hog]

Post by Lorin David Schultz
If the target audience is a limited group known to have players that
support it, Ogg is fine. If the target is a more universal audience,
I'd recommend sticking with mp3.

As Ogg is freeware, there's nothing to stop the OP from offering links or
free downloads of the player software.

[Lorin David Schultz]

Post by Blind Hog
As Ogg is freeware, there's nothing to stop the OP from offering
links or free downloads of the player software.

When I visit a web site that requires downloading and installing
software to access the content, I go away. I can't be bothered.

It's the designer's call, but why put up impediments when the object is
to get people to listen?

Like I said, it depends on the target audience. It the target is the
public at large, don't make 'em jump through hoops, because most people
won't.

[J. P. Morris]

Post by Lorin David Schultz
When I visit a web site that requires downloading and installing
software to access the content, I go away. I can't be bothered.
It's the designer's call, but why put up impediments when the object is
to get people to listen?

I don't think we were told what the project actually is. It might be a
soundtrack for a computer game, or a set of recorded announcements for a PA
system. Ogg would be ideal for either of those.

Post by Lorin David Schultz
Like I said, it depends on the target audience. It the target is the
public at large, don't make 'em jump through hoops, because most people
won't.

Indeed.

[Tomas Dietz]

Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users
desktop kit. Using Linux is like pulling teeth because nothing ever
goes easy with Linux.I have tried several variants of Linux my latest
attempt being Ubuntu and Soosie and it's always the same story.
Websites with multimedia content have all kinds of troubles. Microsoft
Office documents do not import correctly into openorifice.
I think Linux has an earned reputation for being stable only because
it's very difficult to make it interact with the rest of the world most
of whom are using Windows. Windows might be as stable as linux if all
it did was sit there and do nothing.
Maybe in 10 years Linux might approach the ease of use and market that
Windows has now but I doubt it.
Linux is free, yet it is virtually unknown and unused outside of the
geek world.
BTW using OGG for any type of web content is the kiss of death.
People will take a look and leave because they don't have the plugin.
FFT

Post by Lorin David Schultz

Post by Blind Hog
As Ogg is freeware, there's nothing to stop the OP from offering
links or free downloads of the player software.

When I visit a web site that requires downloading and installing
software to access the content, I go away. I can't be bothered.
It's the designer's call, but why put up impediments when the object is
to get people to listen?
Like I said, it depends on the target audience. It the target is the
public at large, don't make 'em jump through hoops, because most people
won't.
--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good
(Remove spamblock to reply)

[Gordon]

Post by Tomas Dietz
Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users
desktop kit. Using Linux is like pulling teeth because nothing ever
goes easy with Linux.I have tried several variants of Linux my latest
attempt being Ubuntu and Soosie and it's always the same story.
Websites with multimedia content have all kinds of troubles. Microsoft
Office documents do not import correctly into openorifice.

Mine do.

Post by Tomas Dietz
I think Linux has an earned reputation for being stable only because
it's very difficult to make it interact with the rest of the world most
of whom are using Windows. Windows might be as stable as linux if all
it did was sit there and do nothing.

90% of all windows users do NOTHING except a bit of email, a bit of web
surfing and the odd letter to Great Aunt Jane. Nothing they can't do in
Linux as easily as windows without all the spyware and virus crap.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Maybe in 10 years Linux might approach the ease of use and market that
Windows has now but I doubt it.

What have you used? Kubuntu is JUST as easy to use as windows, needs NO
setting up on most modern systems and COMES with all the apps the
"ordinary" user needs. Windows just comes with..........Windows.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Linux is free, yet it is virtually unknown and unused outside of the
geek world.

So several LARGE municipal organisations in Europe and Asia are "geeks" are
they?

[Peter Köhlmann]

begin virus.txt.scr Tomas Dietz wrote:

< snip >

Good. And now get lost, cretin

[Unruh]

Post by Tomas Dietz
Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users
desktop kit. Using Linux is like pulling teeth because nothing ever
goes easy with Linux.I have tried several variants of Linux my latest

Huh. Just buy an mp3 encoder. Just like you have to do with Windows. MP3 is
patented and thus in the USA you must pay to use it without violating
patent law (assuming the patent is valid).
Or you could use lame, which can be used legally wherever the patent is not
valid.

You have a choice. And by all reports lame does a very good job of
encoding.
I do not use mp3 because of the attrocious sound of mp3, but YMMV

Post by Tomas Dietz
attempt being Ubuntu and Soosie and it's always the same story.
Websites with multimedia content have all kinds of troubles. Microsoft

Like what?

Post by Tomas Dietz
Office documents do not import correctly into openorifice.

Microsoft office documents do not import correctly into Microsoft office.

Post by Tomas Dietz
I think Linux has an earned reputation for being stable only because
it's very difficult to make it interact with the rest of the world most
of whom are using Windows. Windows might be as stable as linux if all
it did was sit there and do nothing.

Mhh, wonder why I seem to have no trouble interacting with the world
through my computer. Must be imagining it.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Maybe in 10 years Linux might approach the ease of use and market that
Windows has now but I doubt it.
Linux is free, yet it is virtually unknown and unused outside of the
geek world.
BTW using OGG for any type of web content is the kiss of death.
People will take a look and leave because they don't have the plugin.

Depends on who you want to use it with. If with your own friends who have
the ogg plugin, then fine. You can also always put in a link to a plugin.
But in general I agree that if you want to have something that most people
can use, use mp3.

Post by Tomas Dietz

Post by Lorin David Schultz
When I visit a web site that requires downloading and installing
software to access the content, I go away. I can't be bothered.

Me too. Flash, acrobat,....

[Codifus]

Unruh wrote:
.....

Post by Unruh
I do not use mp3 because of the attrocious sound of mp3, but YMMV

If you think MP3s sound atrocious, you must be using a bad mp3 encoder.
Try LAME. You might find that LAMEd MP3s are very good. Ogg may still
have an advantage over MP3, but that is traded off for processing power.
In other words, what Ogg does by making a better audio file at lower bit
rates has the dis-advantage, such as in low power portable devices, of
using more CPU, thus reducing the play time-battery life of a portable
player when compared to the MP3 equivalent. For desktops and such, this
is of course not relevant.

CD

[amosf]

Post by Tomas Dietz
Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users

Geez DFS, can't you stick to the one name?

[Kier]

Post by Tomas Dietz
Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users
desktop kit. Using Linux is like pulling teeth because nothing ever
goes easy with Linux.I have tried several variants of Linux my latest
attempt being Ubuntu and Soosie and it's always the same story.

The only story is the fairy tale you're telling here. I will give you that
SUSE can be a problem with certain kinds of multimedia until you sort it
out, but SUSE and Novell can't afford to have trouble with patents, which
is the reason they leave out Mp3 and DVD decryption. It's not a big deal
to put it in for yourself, and there's a very nice comprehensive How-To on
it - just google for it.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Websites with multimedia content have all kinds of troubles. Microsoft
Office documents do not import correctly into openorifice.

Open-*what* was that? Please don't use such terms, unless you want your
trolling outed in the first paragraph.

Post by Tomas Dietz
I think Linux has an earned reputation for being stable only because
it's very difficult to make it interact with the rest of the world most
of whom are using Windows. Windows might be as stable as linux if all
it did was sit there and do nothing.

You are out of your mind. What the hell do you suppose most of the
internet runs on? Certainly not Windows.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Maybe in 10 years Linux might approach the ease of use and market that
Windows has now but I doubt it.

Your opinion isn't worth much, I'm afraid.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Linux is free, yet it is virtually unknown and unused outside of the
geek world.

Absolutely and utterly wrong. The last person who mention Linux to me,
without any prompting whatever, was a warehouse operative from the factory
where I work. Hardly a geek, right?

Post by Tomas Dietz
BTW using OGG for any type of web content is the kiss of death.
People will take a look and leave because they don't have the plugin.
FFT

Then offer a link to the plugin. Any decent media player will support ogg
anyway.

[Patrick Grimbergen]

Post by Tomas Dietz
Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users
desktop kit. Using Linux is like pulling teeth because nothing ever
goes easy with Linux.I have tried several variants of Linux my latest
attempt being Ubuntu and Soosie and it's always the same story.
Websites with multimedia content have all kinds of troubles. Microsoft
Office documents do not import correctly into openorifice.
I think Linux has an earned reputation for being stable only because
it's very difficult to make it interact with the rest of the world most
of whom are using Windows. Windows might be as stable as linux if all
it did was sit there and do nothing.
Maybe in 10 years Linux might approach the ease of use and market that
Windows has now but I doubt it.
Linux is free, yet it is virtually unknown and unused outside of the
geek world.
BTW using OGG for any type of web content is the kiss of death.
People will take a look and leave because they don't have the plugin.
FFT

Why not use WAV? that plays in ALL players, browsers etc. etc...

I use OGG wherever I can, but I still have not found a decent hack for
my MP3-stick jet...

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
Why not use WAV? that plays in ALL players, browsers etc. etc...
I use OGG wherever I can, but I still have not found a decent hack for
my MP3-stick jet...

That's because it's an MP3-stick rather than an Ogg-stick... :)

[StraightEight]

I have a client who liked all of his work delievered in DSP Group
TrueSpeech, 1 Bit Mono, 8khz, 1kpbs. Seemed an awful shame after we
recorded everything 24 bit 96khz.... but the target audience is linux
users.

[Patrick Grimbergen]

Post by StraightEight
I have a client who liked all of his work delievered in DSP Group
TrueSpeech, 1 Bit Mono, 8khz, 1kpbs. Seemed an awful shame after we
recorded everything 24 bit 96khz.... but the target audience is linux
users.

your client was probably more worried about his bandwith...
also OGG needs less diskspace then MP3, because of the smaller filesize.

[Nate Behra]

Post by Patrick Grimbergen

Post by StraightEight
I have a client who liked all of his work delievered in DSP Group
TrueSpeech, 1 Bit Mono, 8khz, 1kpbs. Seemed an awful shame after we
recorded everything 24 bit 96khz.... but the target audience is linux
users.

your client was probably more worried about his bandwith...
also OGG needs less diskspace then MP3, because of the smaller filesize.

Not necessarily, depending on the encoding quality. Scene standard is Q5
which is roughly equivalent in size to an 128k CBR mp3, but with much
better quality of sound.

[Patrick Grimbergen]

Post by Nate Behra

Post by Patrick Grimbergen

Post by StraightEight
I have a client who liked all of his work delievered in DSP Group
TrueSpeech, 1 Bit Mono, 8khz, 1kpbs. Seemed an awful shame after we
recorded everything 24 bit 96khz.... but the target audience is linux
users.

your client was probably more worried about his bandwith...
also OGG needs less diskspace then MP3, because of the smaller filesize.

Not necessarily, depending on the encoding quality. Scene standard is Q5
which is roughly equivalent in size to an 128k CBR mp3, but with much
better quality of sound.

Are you talking OGG or TrueSpreech
-> if TrueSpeech, I don't know enough of it.
-> of OGG, you are totally wright, if my MP3stick would be playing OGG
file I would ditch MP3 without a thought. Everything I do myself is
already in OGG, but what others do, I don't care to transform, because I
will have to change it back if I want to listen on my mp3stick.

I did seriously look for an OGG-stick, or at least a portable MP3-player
that plays OGG Vorbis files, but had no luck finding (a relatively
cheap) one. -> something for the industry to do something about
:)

[james]

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
Why not use WAV? that plays in ALL players, browsers etc. etc...

The cost of storage and bandwidth are an order of magnitude smaller with
either MP3 or OGG, than, say, FLAC, and certainly, WAV.

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
I use OGG wherever I can, but I still have not found a decent hack for
my MP3-stick jet...

My iRiver plays ogg out of the box.

[Unruh]

Post by james

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
Why not use WAV? that plays in ALL players, browsers etc. etc...

The cost of storage and bandwidth are an order of magnitude smaller with
either MP3 or OGG, than, say, FLAC, and certainly, WAV.

Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory requirements. It is a
bit weird that people will claim to love music and then butcher it with
lossy compression schemes.
It is like taking photos with an expensice camera and then saving them as
JPEGs .

Post by james

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
I use OGG wherever I can, but I still have not found a decent hack for
my MP3-stick jet...

My iRiver plays ogg out of the box.

[james]

Post by Unruh
Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory requirements.

Well, if someone doesn't want to consume the resource, I personally am
not in a position to see it as anyone's loss.

Post by Unruh
It is a
bit weird that people will claim to love music and then butcher it with
lossy compression schemes.

It's the difference between being able to broadcast it free, or keeping
it in master formats on a bookshelf. What's the point of growing a rose
in a locked greenhouse that you won't let anyone see?

Seriously, I'm imposing on someone plenty by asking them to listen to my
music. I'm sure as hell not going to impose on them by expecting them
to download a hundred megs. I usually put up both mp3's and ogg's.
But, MP3 encoders cost money and have a political cloud over them. I
would consider it an imposition on someon to demand mp3 format, for this
reason.

Post by Unruh
It is like taking photos with an expensice camera and then saving them as
JPEGs .

It's exactly like that. I keep my 8 megapixel RAW images on DVD
masters. I would never have any delusion that any photo of mine is
worth an hour of someone's time to download! And JPEGs look pretty
good. Hell, my last large format print (24x36) was made from a jpeg. I
can't tell by looking at it.

[David Wright]

Post by Unruh

Post by james

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
Why not use WAV? that plays in ALL players, browsers etc. etc...

The cost of storage and bandwidth are an order of magnitude smaller with
either MP3 or OGG, than, say, FLAC, and certainly, WAV.

Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory requirements. It is a
bit weird that people will claim to love music and then butcher it with
lossy compression schemes.
It is like taking photos with an expensice camera and then saving them as
JPEGs .

Depending on the compression used, the quality can be "good enough" when
played through typical headphones or computer speakers. Yes, if you have a
decent hi-fi, you may be able to pick up the flatness or loss of signal,
but sitting in an office with tinny speakers or on a train with a set of
headphones on, with all the background noise, you probably won't notice the
loss if you have used a high bit-rate, if you've used maximum compression,
then yes, it sounds pretty dire.

For the office (and convinience), I have everything on MP3/OGG. For a party,
I'll probably use an MP3/Ogg jukebox, if I am listening in the quiet at
home, then I'll dig out the original vinyl or CD's...

Same with JPEG, at low compression they are "good enough" for most purposes,
when I need really high quality, I'll use RAW or one of my film cameras.
For party snaps and general, JPEG is good enough...

Post by Unruh

Post by james

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
I use OGG wherever I can, but I still have not found a decent hack for
my MP3-stick jet...

My iRiver plays ogg out of the box.

Never bought an MP3 player - although the ICE in the car has an MP3 CD
headunit to compliment the 6-CD changer in the trunk...

Dave

[chrisv]

Post by Unruh
Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory requirements. It is a
bit weird that people will claim to love music and then butcher it with
lossy compression schemes.

Heh. Yeah, I don't get the whole mp3 thing. Walking around all the
time with earphones on (and that's the only valid reason for it, IMO)?
I don't think so.

When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high end) stereo
system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

[Arny Krueger]

Post by chrisv

Post by Unruh
Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory
requirements. It is a bit weird that people will claim
to love music and then butcher it with lossy compression
schemes.

Good lossy compression schemes butcher music a whole lot
less than say vinyl, which some still diefy.

Post by chrisv
Heh. Yeah, I don't get the whole mp3 thing. Walking
around all the time with earphones on (and that's the
only valid reason for it, IMO)?

Enjoying music wherever you are, especally if what you are
doing is mentally kind of trivial.

What a concept!

Post by chrisv
I don't think so.

Many do.

Post by chrisv
When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high
end) stereo system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

Never heard good earphones, I take it?

[Jim Richardson]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:53:56 -0500,

Post by chrisv

Post by Unruh
Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory requirements. It is a
bit weird that people will claim to love music and then butcher it with
lossy compression schemes.

Heh. Yeah, I don't get the whole mp3 thing. Walking around all the
time with earphones on (and that's the only valid reason for it, IMO)?
I don't think so.
When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high end) stereo
system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

I use my iPod daily, for up to 10 hours a day. (well, less now that the
battery is starting to croak, I can go about 8.5hrs now) I listen to
audiobooks, podcasts, and of course, music. (20GB iPod, about 2/3 full
of stuff I've ripped from my CDs.)

Don't want to do that? don't, simple as that. I like it.

At home, we've moved the CDs (about 350 of them) to HD, and I am
building a dedicated media box for them. Space is important, and getting
rid of all the CDs (well, putting them into storage at my folks) is a
nice boost, in addition to not having to juggle the disks when you want
to play something. We have a pretty basic audio system on board. Maybe
if you have $10K of audio gear you'd want to use FLAC instead of mp3 or
ogg. But it's still a net gain to put it all on HD storage (with
backups) and play from there.

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[Unruh]

Post by Jim Richardson
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:53:56 -0500,

Post by chrisv

Post by Unruh
Sure. And not playing it at all has even less memory requirements. It is a
bit weird that people will claim to love music and then butcher it with
lossy compression schemes.

Heh. Yeah, I don't get the whole mp3 thing. Walking around all the
time with earphones on (and that's the only valid reason for it, IMO)?
I don't think so.
When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high end) stereo
system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

I use my iPod daily, for up to 10 hours a day. (well, less now that the
battery is starting to croak, I can go about 8.5hrs now) I listen to
audiobooks, podcasts, and of course, music. (20GB iPod, about 2/3 full
of stuff I've ripped from my CDs.)
Don't want to do that? don't, simple as that. I like it.
At home, we've moved the CDs (about 350 of them) to HD, and I am
building a dedicated media box for them. Space is important, and getting
rid of all the CDs (well, putting them into storage at my folks) is a
nice boost, in addition to not having to juggle the disks when you want
to play something. We have a pretty basic audio system on board. Maybe
if you have $10K of audio gear you'd want to use FLAC instead of mp3 or
ogg. But it's still a net gain to put it all on HD storage (with

Well, no. Try listening to the straight .wav vs the mp3 in comparison.
There is a harshness to the latter, like distortion (It IS distortion).
that is not there in the former.
Of course the ear is a wonderfully adaptive system so that it can get used
to all kinds of things.

Post by Jim Richardson
backups) and play from there.

Sure. And if you just store the .wav file that 350CDs is about 200GB of
storage. But is a bit like saying that to store your photographs, you need
to fold them up to store them.Yes the folded photo has most of the info
of the non-folded one. But...

[chrisv]

Post by Unruh

Post by Jim Richardson

Post by chrisv
When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high end) stereo
system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

I use my iPod daily, for up to 10 hours a day. (well, less now that the
battery is starting to croak, I can go about 8.5hrs now) I listen to
audiobooks, podcasts, and of course, music. (20GB iPod, about 2/3 full
of stuff I've ripped from my CDs.)
Don't want to do that? don't, simple as that. I like it.
At home, we've moved the CDs (about 350 of them) to HD, and I am
building a dedicated media box for them. Space is important, and getting
rid of all the CDs (well, putting them into storage at my folks) is a
nice boost, in addition to not having to juggle the disks when you want
to play something. We have a pretty basic audio system on board. Maybe
if you have $10K of audio gear you'd want to use FLAC instead of mp3 or
ogg. But it's still a net gain to put it all on HD storage (with

Well, no. Try listening to the straight .wav vs the mp3 in comparison.
There is a harshness to the latter, like distortion (It IS distortion).
that is not there in the former.
Of course the ear is a wonderfully adaptive system so that it can get used
to all kinds of things.

If MP3 is done right (high-enough bit rate), it can be pretty good.
The common 128kb/s MP3's definately suffer quality loss, however...

[chrisv]

Post by Jim Richardson

Post by chrisv
Heh. Yeah, I don't get the whole mp3 thing. Walking around all the
time with earphones on (and that's the only valid reason for it, IMO)?
I don't think so.
When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high end) stereo
system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

I use my iPod daily, for up to 10 hours a day. (well, less now that the
battery is starting to croak, I can go about 8.5hrs now) I listen to
audiobooks, podcasts, and of course, music. (20GB iPod, about 2/3 full
of stuff I've ripped from my CDs.)
Don't want to do that? don't, simple as that. I like it.
At home, we've moved the CDs (about 350 of them) to HD, and I am
building a dedicated media box for them. Space is important, and getting
rid of all the CDs (well, putting them into storage at my folks) is a
nice boost, in addition to not having to juggle the disks when you want
to play something. We have a pretty basic audio system on board. Maybe
if you have $10K of audio gear you'd want to use FLAC instead of mp3 or
ogg. But it's still a net gain to put it all on HD storage (with
backups) and play from there.

Well, you live on a boat, right? To many people, the few ft^2
occupied by the CD collection is not a big deal.

[Jim Richardson]

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On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:25:29 -0500,

Post by chrisv

Post by Jim Richardson

Post by chrisv
Heh. Yeah, I don't get the whole mp3 thing. Walking around all the
time with earphones on (and that's the only valid reason for it, IMO)?
I don't think so.
When I want to listen to music, I pop a CD into my (high end) stereo
system, and hear GOOD QUALITY sound.

I use my iPod daily, for up to 10 hours a day. (well, less now that the
battery is starting to croak, I can go about 8.5hrs now) I listen to
audiobooks, podcasts, and of course, music. (20GB iPod, about 2/3 full
of stuff I've ripped from my CDs.)
Don't want to do that? don't, simple as that. I like it.
At home, we've moved the CDs (about 350 of them) to HD, and I am
building a dedicated media box for them. Space is important, and getting
rid of all the CDs (well, putting them into storage at my folks) is a
nice boost, in addition to not having to juggle the disks when you want
to play something. We have a pretty basic audio system on board. Maybe
if you have $10K of audio gear you'd want to use FLAC instead of mp3 or
ogg. But it's still a net gain to put it all on HD storage (with
backups) and play from there.

Well, you live on a boat, right? To many people, the few ft^2
occupied by the CD collection is not a big deal.

Yes, that's a big part of it. Although I'd do this even if we lived
ashore. The convenience of having all the music accessible via Amarok
simply can't be beat. Since Amarok will happily play FLAC, WAV, mp3,
ogg, etc. You can pick the format your ears like. From memory, FLAC
tends to take about 1/2 the space of WAV, with no loss. So it would make
sense, especially in a world with cheap 200GB drives :)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDVoxEd90bcYOAWPYRAj9PAJ0ew8gw/HXIyhIgtko2r2bqNqVVTACfSt47
Rbwp01DRpRcmy7bq9VGtJDE=
=iYNs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Daniel James]

Post by james
My iRiver plays ogg out of the box.

The only disadvantage to using Ogg on a portable player is that
decompression requires more processor power and so more battery power for
Ogg (or, more properly, for Vorbis) than for MP3. Ogg gives better sound at
higher compression, though, so it's a trade-off between maximizing use of
storage and maximizing battery life.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Karel "de Jazz" Jansens]

Post by Daniel James

Post by james
My iRiver plays ogg out of the box.

The only disadvantage to using Ogg on a portable player is that
decompression requires more processor power and so more battery power for
Ogg (or, more properly, for Vorbis) than for MP3. Ogg gives better sound at
higher compression, though, so it's a trade-off between maximizing use of
storage and maximizing battery life.

Although decoding with Vorbis does indeed require more processing power,
I haven't seen any significant reduction in battery life on my SE P910.
What I /did/ find was that I could store double the number of CDs on a
memory stick using Ogg encoding, compared to MP3, so: Yay, Ogg!

Funnily enough, and really not a feather in Linux's cap, is that, for
me, the best results by far come from CDex, a Windows-based encoder.
Linux Ogg encoders seem to produce far more artifacts compared to CDex.

[rapskat]

Post by Karel "de Jazz" Jansens
Funnily enough, and really not a feather in Linux's cap, is that, for
me, the best results by far come from CDex, a Windows-based encoder.
Linux Ogg encoders seem to produce far more artifacts compared to CDex.

Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.

I have a script that does this if you are interested. The day Windows
beats out Linux for encoding is the day I retire my Linux Registration
Number!

[Rebecca]

Post by rapskat
The day Windows
beats out Linux for encoding is the day I retire my Linux Registration
Number!

Then I assume it has been retired already.

[rapskat]

Post by Rebecca

Post by rapskat
The day Windows
beats out Linux for encoding is the day I retire my Linux Registration
Number!

Then I assume it has been retired already.

You assume wrong then.

[Kadaitcha Man]

Post by rapskat

Post by Rebecca

Post by rapskat
The day Windows
beats out Linux for encoding is the day I retire my Linux
Registration Number!

Then I assume it has been retired already.

You assume wrong then.

Ok, so you lied.
--
Pierre Salinger Memorial HL&S, September 2005.

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[Movie Maniac]

Post by rapskat
Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.
I have a script that does this if you are interested.

I'd like to give it a try, if you can :)

[Stephanie Mannerz]

Post by Movie Maniac

Post by rapskat
Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.
I have a script that does this if you are interested.

I'd like to give it a try, if you can :)

I would be more interested in knowing how encoding/decoding files with
Linux via mplayer and not using a pipe results in less artifacts than
passing the files through the exact same encoders/decoders via another
method.

For example if you encode/decode using Nero, Adaptec,Sony etc using LAME
CODEC what difference would there be?

The Nero/Adaptec etc are merely manipulating the file into and out of the
CODEC.

Rapskat?
How do YOU explain this..

Or, maybe the folks in RAP would know the answer to this because I am
confused.

flatfish+++

[Roy Culley]

begin risky.vbs

[snip]
flatfish+++

Nice one Stephanie, oops I mean flatfish. Organization: Optimum
Online! See folks, that's why I like s/h/it's posts. Always screws up
sometime. Say hello to Simon for me flatty. He seems to use the same
IP address.

-- Rich Bell in thread: Things I couldn't do if I switched to Linux
Message-ID: <tB7Oe.182$***@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>
I am connected to the Net using a Linksys WRT54G router. I don't
get hacked.

[Stephanie Mannerz]

Post by Roy Culley
begin risky.vbs

[snip]
flatfish+++

Nice one Stephanie, oops I mean flatfish. Organization: Optimum
Online! See folks, that's why I like s/h/it's posts. Always screws up
sometime. Say hello to Simon for me flatty. He seems to use the same
IP address.

Somebody has to keep you bozos on your toes!
You have been doing so poorly these days identifying trolls I figured I
would throw you a bone.

Did I say bone?

If figures Roy Culley would be the first to pick this one up, although my
money was on Aragorn.


Simon?
I don't think so.

Proof of your paranoid accusations please!

Let's sit and watch this one disappear, because there is no way simon is
using this IP.

I'm going to keep on this one until you present the proof.

So how about it Culley?

(Now aren't you happy you were the first!)

Like I said before, this is like taking candy from a baby.
Set up the gag, and watch the suckers fall for it every time.

[Roy Culley]

begin risky.vbs

Post by Stephanie Mannerz

Post by Roy Culley
begin risky.vbs

[snip]
flatfish+++

Nice one Stephanie, oops I mean flatfish. Organization: Optimum
Online! See folks, that's why I like s/h/it's posts. Always screws up
sometime. Say hello to Simon for me flatty. He seems to use the same
IP address.

Somebody has to keep you bozos on your toes!
You have been doing so poorly these days identifying trolls I figured I
would throw you a bone.
Did I say bone?
If figures Roy Culley would be the first to pick this one up, although my
money was on Aragorn.
Simon?
I don't think so.
Proof of your paranoid accusations please!
Let's sit and watch this one disappear, because there is no way simon is
using this IP.

Are you really sure flatty? I'm giving you a chance to confess here.
Remember only google recognises x-no-archive. Others don't, like my

Post by Stephanie Mannerz
I'm going to keep on this one until you present the proof.
So how about it Culley?
(Now aren't you happy you were the first!)
Like I said before, this is like taking candy from a baby. Set up
the gag, and watch the suckers fall for it every time.

You fucked up flatty. Thanks for all the fun. :-)

[flatfish +++]

Post by Roy Culley
You fucked up flatty. Thanks for all the fun. :-)

I believe someone is pulling your fin Roy.

[Roy Culley]

begin risky.vbs

Post by flatfish +++

Post by Roy Culley
You fucked up flatty. Thanks for all the fun. :-)

I believe someone is pulling your fin Roy.

Nice bit of snipping flatty. Once again your nym shifting has been
exposed. You are truly pathetic.

[Aragorn]

On Monday 17 October 2005 02:39, Stephanie Mannerz stood up and spoke
the following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/

Post by Stephanie Mannerz

Post by Roy Culley
begin risky.vbs

[snip]
flatfish+++

Nice one Stephanie, oops I mean flatfish. Organization: Optimum
Online! See folks, that's why I like s/h/it's posts. Always screws
up sometime. Say hello to Simon for me flatty. He seems to use the
same IP address.

Somebody has to keep you bozos on your toes!
You have been doing so poorly these days identifying trolls I figured
I would throw you a bone.
Did I say bone?
If figures Roy Culley would be the first to pick this one up, although
my money was on Aragorn.

I'm sorry to disappoint you but I missed that part. Given my condition,
I am no good at playing mindgames anyway.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Stephanie Mannerz

Post by Movie Maniac

Post by rapskat
Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.
I have a script that does this if you are interested.

I'd like to give it a try, if you can :)

I would be more interested in knowing how encoding/decoding files with
Linux via mplayer and not using a pipe results in less artifacts than
passing the files through the exact same encoders/decoders via another
method.

All I can think is that if you have problems with your audio breaking up
because you don't have enough compute power for the decoder to keep the
pipe full, that doing it into a file and then playing the file back gives
you an additional layer of buffering so the decoder doesn't have to run
in realtime.
--scott

[Stephanie Mannerz]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Stephanie Mannerz

Post by Movie Maniac

Post by rapskat
Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.
I have a script that does this if you are interested.

I'd like to give it a try, if you can :)

I would be more interested in knowing how encoding/decoding files with
Linux via mplayer and not using a pipe results in less artifacts than
passing the files through the exact same encoders/decoders via another
method.

All I can think is that if you have problems with your audio breaking up
because you don't have enough compute power for the decoder to keep the
pipe full, that doing it into a file and then playing the file back gives
you an additional layer of buffering so the decoder doesn't have to run
in realtime.
--scott

But we are talking about a guy, rapskat, who claims he can run 30
simultaneous videos, burn CD's, encode/decode streams etc all at the same
time and all on an underpowered machine. Using Linux of course.

I say rapskat is FOS.

[Roy Culley]

begin risky.vbs
<JqC4f.1784$***@fe08.lga>,
Stephanie Mannerz <***@gmail.com> writes:

[snip]

Ain't you the arsehole called flatfish who recently posted as Simon
from the same IP address?

Yup, sure you are. You must try harder flatty me boy. :-)

[rapskat]

Post by Stephanie Mannerz

Post by Scott Dorsey
All I can think is that if you have problems with your audio breaking up
because you don't have enough compute power for the decoder to keep the
pipe full, that doing it into a file and then playing the file back gives
you an additional layer of buffering so the decoder doesn't have to run
in realtime.
--scott

But we are talking about a guy, rapskat, who claims he can run 30
simultaneous videos, burn CD's, encode/decode streams etc all at the same
time and all on an underpowered machine. Using Linux of course.

I haven't tried 30, but I have had up to 15 going in addition to
everything else you mention plus some other stuff.

Post by Stephanie Mannerz
I say rapskat is FOS.

http://flickr.com/photos/***@N00/9093920/

[rapskat]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Stephanie Mannerz
I would be more interested in knowing how encoding/decoding files with
Linux via mplayer and not using a pipe results in less artifacts than
passing the files through the exact same encoders/decoders via another
method.

All I can think is that if you have problems with your audio breaking up
because you don't have enough compute power for the decoder to keep the
pipe full, that doing it into a file and then playing the file back gives
you an additional layer of buffering so the decoder doesn't have to run
in realtime.
--scott

Precisely. You would think that someone who claims to have a professional
audio studio like flatty would understand this.

[flatfish +++]

Post by rapskat

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Stephanie Mannerz
I would be more interested in knowing how encoding/decoding files with
Linux via mplayer and not using a pipe results in less artifacts than
passing the files through the exact same encoders/decoders via another
method.

All I can think is that if you have problems with your audio breaking up
because you don't have enough compute power for the decoder to keep the
pipe full, that doing it into a file and then playing the file back gives
you an additional layer of buffering so the decoder doesn't have to run
in realtime.
--scott

Precisely. You would think that someone who claims to have a professional
audio studio like flatty would understand this.

OMG give me a shovel already Rapskat....
1. I haven't even been involved in this thread.
2. You have no idea what you are talking about and are simply piggy
backing on another learned persons comment.
IOW you don't even know what Scott is talking about but since it fits your
argument you jump on it.

3. Here is your statement:

************************************************************

Post by rapskat
Funnily enough, and really not a feather in Linux's cap, is that, for
me, the best results by far come from CDex, a Windows-based encoder.
Linux Ogg encoders seem to produce far more artifacts compared to CDex.

Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.

I have a script that does this if you are interested. The day Windows
beats out Linux for encoding is the day I retire my Linux Registration
Number!


*******************************************************************



Nobody is talking about overloading anything.
A single file, that even a P166 could encode/decode....


So now YOU tell me, and Scott, how given the same CODEC your piped
file sounds better.

And please, stop trying to distort things.

Do I really have to bring up your simultaneous video display posts?
IOW the ones where you were laughed out of the Linux groups?
Like your claim of displaying 20+ videos, burning CD's and doing all kinds
of streaming without a skip on a P3 machine with 128mb of memory.


Artifacts are generated by the encode/decode process.
The piping has nothing to do with it.


Once again you prove yourself as an idiot and a wannabe.

[rapskat]

Post by flatfish +++

Post by rapskat
Precisely. You would think that someone who claims to have a professional
audio studio like flatty would understand this.

OMG give me a shovel already Rapskat....
1. I haven't even been involved in this thread.

Blatant Lie.

Post by flatfish +++
2. You have no idea what you are talking about and are simply piggy
backing on another learned persons comment.

No idea what I'm talking about, eh? So you think I haven't encoded media
on Linux and Windows before?

Post by flatfish +++
IOW you don't even know what Scott is talking about but since it fits your
argument you jump on it.

The person is encoding from CD. I happen to know for a fact that CDex
rips the data first, and then encodes it. Rippers on Linux usually pipe
the data and encode it on the fly. If the system is unable to "keep up
with itself", then artifacts can happen in a real time op like this. I
didn't say it was the only cause of artifacts, but it is definitely one
reason.

The solution is to make sure that either (a) you have a high enough read
ahead cache set to avoid situations like this, especially on slow media
like remote filesystems, CD's or lesser-powered systems, or (b) not to do
the encoding on the fly and just do a two step linear rip+encode.

KAudioCreator and Grip default to the two step process for
ripping+encoding, like CDex, so that's another option on Linux.

[flatfish +++]

Post by rapskat

Post by flatfish +++

Post by rapskat
Precisely. You would think that someone who claims to have a professional
audio studio like flatty would understand this.

OMG give me a shovel already Rapskat....
1. I haven't even been involved in this thread.

Blatant Lie.

Your proof?

Post by rapskat

Post by flatfish +++
2. You have no idea what you are talking about and are simply piggy
backing on another learned persons comment.

No idea what I'm talking about, eh? So you think I haven't encoded media
on Linux and Windows before?

Every idiot under the sun has done that.

Post by rapskat
The person is encoding from CD. I happen to know for a fact that CDex
rips the data first, and then encodes it. Rippers on Linux usually pipe
the data and encode it on the fly. If the system is unable to "keep up
with itself", then artifacts can happen in a real time op like this. I
didn't say it was the only cause of artifacts, but it is definitely one
reason.

If the system can't keep up with encoding one file it is in serious
trouble.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

You are trying to imply that Linux does a better job on encoding/decoding
and I am saying you are FOS.

A CODEC is a CODEC is a CODEC...
If you happen to have a poor performing system, so be it, that's your
problem......

Post by rapskat
The solution is to make sure that either (a) you have a high enough read
ahead cache set to avoid situations like this, especially on slow media
like remote filesystems, CD's or lesser-powered systems, or (b) not to do
the encoding on the fly and just do a two step linear rip+encode.

Yawnn....

You are trying to baffle the uninformed......

A CODEC is a CODEC.......
Pipe file through LAME you will get one collection of bits, OS doesn't
matter.
Pump a file through NERO and you will get another set of bits...Again, OS
doesn't matter....

Post by rapskat
KAudioCreator and Grip default to the two step process for
ripping+encoding, like CDex, so that's another option on Linux.

You just don't get it do you?

[rapskat]

Post by flatfish +++
You are trying to baffle the uninformed......

Are you sufficiently baffled then?

Post by flatfish +++
A CODEC is a CODEC.......
Pipe file through LAME you will get one collection of bits, OS doesn't
matter.
Pump a file through NERO and you will get another set of bits...Again,
OS doesn't matter....

It has nothing to do with the codec! What part of that don't you
understand?

Think of a stream of data like water. That water is taken from it's
source and then routed to a destination via pipes, like a stream of data
output from one program being piped to the input of another program to be
operated on.

If there is an interruption in the flow of water in a pipe, what happens?
Pretty much the same thing in a data pipe. This is where flaws in the
encoding process can be introduced, which come out in the end product as
artifacts - clicks, skips, pops, and the like.

This is why it is crucial to maintain a steady flow of data when encoding
media files. This is also why Linux is superior at this type of operation
because the encoding programs available for it are highly tweakable for
maximum performance, and it is capable of managing resources more
efficiently than Windows even under heavy load, which means less chance of
cessation of data flow during encoding, resulting in a better end result.

This is also the reason why Linux is able to multitask better than
Windows. Like my multiple videos and burning CD's, downloading and other
things at the same time. When you are ready to move up to a enterprise
class, heavy duty OS like Linux, then you'll understand what I mean.

http://flickr.com/photos/***@N00/9044926/

[flatfish +++]

Post by rapskat

Post by flatfish +++
You are trying to baffle the uninformed......

Are you sufficiently baffled then?

Post by flatfish +++
A CODEC is a CODEC.......
Pipe file through LAME you will get one collection of bits, OS doesn't
matter.
Pump a file through NERO and you will get another set of bits...Again,
OS doesn't matter....

It has nothing to do with the codec! What part of that don't you
understand?
Think of a stream of data like water. That water is taken from it's
source and then routed to a destination via pipes, like a stream of data
output from one program being piped to the input of another program to be
operated on.
If there is an interruption in the flow of water in a pipe, what happens?
Pretty much the same thing in a data pipe. This is where flaws in the
encoding process can be introduced, which come out in the end product as
artifacts - clicks, skips, pops, and the like.
This is why it is crucial to maintain a steady flow of data when encoding
media files. This is also why Linux is superior at this type of operation
because the encoding programs available for it are highly tweakable for
maximum performance, and it is capable of managing resources more
efficiently than Windows even under heavy load, which means less chance of
cessation of data flow during encoding, resulting in a better end result.
This is also the reason why Linux is able to multitask better than
Windows. Like my multiple videos and burning CD's, downloading and other
things at the same time. When you are ready to move up to a enterprise
class, heavy duty OS like Linux, then you'll understand what I mean.

You HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!

You drag 15 different things into the discussion in order to confuse
people.

It HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MULTITASKING....

YOU are trying to imply that encoding/.decoding has audible differences
with Linux.
I say you are full of shit.
YOU drag all kinds of crap into the discussion.

I say, pipe a file through encoder x,y or z under ANY os an you will hear
the same thing for better or worse.

Your tales of loading the OS are dubious at best.
You show a pile of frozen vids....
So what?
Who cares?
You are jumping all over the place in order to save your already somewhat
dubious reputation.


IOW you are all over the map and fail to focus on the subject of the
thread.

You want to talk about skips, clicks and pops?

Why not talk about how Linux is unable to play two sounds at once,,,,

Windows does that easily....
No skips, clicks or pops.



FWIW my 2006 Mustang GT can blow your Toyota out of the water...
My Weber BBQ is better than your Sears.
So what?

[Aragorn]

On Monday 17 October 2005 10:11, flatfish +++ stood up and spoke the
following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/

Post by flatfish +++
Why not talk about how Linux is unable to play two sounds at once,,,,

It's perfectly capable of doing that if the soundcard supports
multiplexing.

[Jim Richardson]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:11:34 -0400,

Post by flatfish +++
Why not talk about how Linux is unable to play two sounds at once,,,,

because you are wrong about this?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDVAiMd90bcYOAWPYRAmSaAKCv4jb+QBzwzp3Zf/3jS3xfrBhpIACg3ROd
iSLVwpyHTXzNUsXORCo3OaQ=
=PD3D
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[rapskat]

Post by flatfish +++
You HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!

So why are you getting all upset then?

Post by flatfish +++
You drag 15 different things into the discussion in order to confuse
people.

No, I mention one thing, encoding media files, and bring in related topics
as they tie in.

Post by flatfish +++
It HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MULTITASKING....

It has to do with how well the platform can manage resources.

Post by flatfish +++
YOU are trying to imply that encoding/.decoding has audible differences
with Linux.

I didn't say that. What I said was that Linux was better at encoding
media due to the fact that it handles resources better. I can rip a DVD
and encode a bunch of mp3's to ogg simultaneously and still use my system
as I would normally without any hiccups.

Post by flatfish +++
I say you are full of shit.
YOU drag all kinds of crap into the discussion.

You just don't like hearing that Windows is a light weight when compared
to Linux.

Post by flatfish +++
I say, pipe a file through encoder x,y or z under ANY os an you will hear
the same thing for better or worse.

The thing here is that you are not reading directly from a static file.
The file in question is a pipe that has to be continuously filled with
data in order to have anything to feed to the encoder. When that stream
is interrupted during this process, then you get artifacts.

This is why I recommended ripping the file first, then encoding it.

Post by flatfish +++
Your tales of loading the OS are dubious at best.
You show a pile of frozen vids....

Oh, they're frozen now? So the "play" indicator along with the play times
is all faked then? Riiiiight.

Post by flatfish +++
So what?
Who cares?

Obviously you do since you can't seem to leave it alone. What's a matter,
can't duplicate it on your own system?

Post by flatfish +++
You are jumping all over the place in order to save your already somewhat
dubious reputation.

Whatever flatty. You are certainly not one to be casting umbrage on
someone's reputation considering yours.

Post by flatfish +++
IOW you are all over the map and fail to focus on the subject of the
thread.
You want to talk about skips, clicks and pops?
Why not talk about how Linux is unable to play two sounds at once,,,,

It isn't? Funny, it seems to do just fine over here. Look at this screen
shot again...

http://flickr.com/photos/***@N00/9044926/

If you notice, they are all actually playing. Now how is that possible if
Linux is "unable to play two sounds at once"?

Post by flatfish +++
Windows does that easily....
No skips, clicks or pops.

Sure, so long as you're not doing anything else intensive at the same
time. Now try playing a few sources at once and playing a 3D game
fullscreen or encoding or ripping or copying a large file or burning a
CD/DVD. Or maybe all of the above!

Post by flatfish +++
FWIW my 2006 Mustang GT can blow your Toyota out of the water...
My Weber BBQ is better than your Sears.
So what?

WTF? You must be on your manic cycle again.

[rapskat]

Post by Stephanie Mannerz
I would be more interested in knowing how encoding/decoding files with
Linux via mplayer and not using a pipe results in less artifacts than
passing the files through the exact same encoders/decoders via another
method.
For example if you encode/decode using Nero, Adaptec,Sony etc using LAME
CODEC what difference would there be?
The Nero/Adaptec etc are merely manipulating the file into and out of
the CODEC.
Rapskat?
How do YOU explain this..

What's to explain? The audio output is dumped to an uncompressed pcm
(wav) file, then that is encoded to ogg.

I'm not sure what part of that is confusing for you.

[rapskat]

Post by Movie Maniac

Post by rapskat
Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.
I have a script that does this if you are interested.

I'd like to give it a try, if you can :)

Here it is, I have my reader set not to wrap, but yours might anyway so watch for wrapping.

Keep in mind this is a really dumb script so no tag info or special preferences will be preserved.
I have a much more advanced conversion script that does all that if you are interested.



<script>

#!/bin/bash

# SCRIPT NAME: m3g
# FUNCTION: converts all specified valid media files to ogg files
# EXPECTED USAGE: m3g [files]
# PARAMETERS & OPTIONS: none
# RETURNS: none
# DEPENDANCIES: mplayer, oggenc, file, bash
# INPUT FILES:
# OUTPUT FILES:
#
# DEVELOPED BY -
# CREATION DATE - Tue Mar 22 21:48:41 EST 2005
# REVISION NUMBER - 0.1
# REVISION DATE -
# DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT - Linux 2.6.10-1-k7; Debian 3.0 ; BASH Version 3.00.16(1)
# COMMENTS -

# +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
# + BEGIN SCRIPT +
# +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+


TRIED=0
SUCCESS=0
FAILED=0
SKIPPED=0


echo " -=-=AUDIO TO OGG CONVERSION SCRIPT=-=-"

if [ $# -eq 0 ] ; then
echo "No files were passed to convert...exiting."
exit 1
else
echo "$# Files passed..."
fi
echo
for TRACK in $@
do
if [ -f "$TRACK" ] ; then
TRIED=$((TRIED += 1))
echo "--> Converting $TRACK..."
if [ -f audiodump.wav ] ; then
rm -f audiodump.wav
fi
mplayer -vo null -vc dummy -ao pcm -really-quiet "$TRACK"
oggenc -o "`basename $TRACK`"mod.ogg audiodump.wav
wait
if [ $? -eq 0 ] ; then
SUCCESS=$((SUCCESS += 1))
else
FAILED=$((FAILED += 1))
fi
rm -f audiodump.wav
else
echo "--> $TRACK does not appear to be a file...skipping"
SKIPPED=$((SKIPPED += 1))
continue
fi
done

echo "Operation completed -- Skipped: $SKIPPED Attempted: $TRIED Sucessful: $SUCCESS Failed: $FAILED"
exit

# +------------------------------------------------- END SCRIPT----------------------------------------+


</script>

[John B]

Post by Movie Maniac

Post by rapskat
Try using the dumpaudio option of mplayer to dump media files to wav
format and then encode that with oggenc without using a pipe, it works a
treat if you are getting alot of artifacts.
I have a script that does this if you are interested.

I'd like to give it a try, if you can :)

I dont use ogg (because my car HU doesnt support it) but when I was
backing up cd's with copy protection, arson, et al would stall and
sometimes put pops in, not good.
I installed abcde(apt package name) (A Better CD Encoder) and have it
set up now so I go: Console >> abcde >> (downloads CDDB info) >> two
more keystrokes, and it dumps the mp3s @ required bitrate etc.. into
neatly organised folders and I find the quality is exceptional, even
when I have one cd encoding and one ripping at the same time.

abcde also does FLAC and ogg vorbis.

abcde has two options (plus a lot more), rip whole cd then encode or rip

Post by Movie Maniac
encode, rip > encode etc..

:)
--
JB

[Patrick Grimbergen]

Post by james

Post by Patrick Grimbergen
I use OGG wherever I can, but I still have not found a decent hack for
my MP3-stick jet...

My iRiver plays ogg out of the box.

I just found a advertisement from Block Electrostores in the letterbox. They
have a SamSung Mp3 flash-stick player of 512MB on offer that plays MP-3,
OGG and WMA.

It says it has surround sound... kind of suppriced as to the why off it...
Costs EURO 99 and plays 45 hours on 1 AA battery (according to SamSung)

[Toosmoky]

Post by Tomas Dietz
Which is precisely why Linux is such a dismal failure for an end users
desktop kit.

Not for me. Does everything I want. Games, multimedia, networking, web.
Even plays ever-so-nicely with my WinPC.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Using Linux is like pulling teeth because nothing ever
goes easy with Linux.

So you had Windows sussed out the first day you used it? MCSE the week
after?...

Post by Tomas Dietz
I have tried several variants of Linux my latest
attempt being Ubuntu and Soosie and it's always the same story.

No guts, no glory. I started with Red Hat 5.2 in '98. Took months just
to get a GUI up and running.

Post by Tomas Dietz
I think Linux has an earned reputation for being stable only because
it's very difficult to make it interact with the rest of the world most
of whom are using Windows.

Difficult for you. Not for us.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Maybe in 10 years Linux might approach the ease of use and market that
Windows has now but I doubt it.

If Windows was so easy to use/fix/administer I wouldn't be constantly
bombarded with phone calls from Windows-using co-workers requesting help.

It might have been easy back when all you could do was type a letter and
print it off but XP is light years away from Win95 in features. Features
require effort to train oneself in the use of, provide opportunities for
things to go wrong and add complexity to the basic operating system.

I've spent many hours Googling to fix issues with my own and others' WinPCs.

Then consider the time spent setting up Windows XP with all the software
that comes standard with linux distros.

Typing in serial numbers, rebooting, searching for program updates,
downloading individual updates from various vendors' web sites, applying
updates, rebooting, etc...

With linux there's no serial numbers to worry about, all software is
installed and updated along with the operating system.

Post by Tomas Dietz
Linux is free, yet it is virtually unknown and unused outside of the
geek world.

Not so. I know of several people using linux at home. It's a small
percentage compared to Win users but not when compared to Apple users.

[james]

Post by Lorin David Schultz

Post by Blind Hog
As Ogg is freeware, there's nothing to stop the OP from offering
links or free downloads of the player software.

When I visit a web site that requires downloading and installing
software to access the content, I go away. I can't be bothered.

There are different degrees of nuisance. Making me install a Macromedia
plugin to see some advertising, will make me forego visiting your site.
Requiring a PDF reader is annoying, but I usually want the resource
badly enough to compromise.

With OGG, the format is open and therefore I have a really enormous
choice of players. And since I pretty much use winamp for personal
listening, it's not as though I've got to do anything special.

[james]

Post by Lorin David Schultz
The problem is that it's not a universal format.

So, the format that is encumbered by patent royalties is the "universal"
format, but the format that is available for anyone, free, on any
platform, is not?

Post by Lorin David Schultz
Geeks will have
players that support the Ogg format, but most "ordinary" people won't.
Anyone who has a computer will have a player that supports mp3.

Doesn't the Ipod mean AAC is eclipsing MP3 now?

Winamp plays OGG, and LOTS of non-geeks have that.

[philicorda]

Post by Winston Rectus
I have a client who would like all of his work delievered in Ogg format
at 128Kbps.
As I am not too familiar with Ogg I would like to know what others
think of the quality and also the size of the files?
Is Ogg a viable platform or should I suggest something else.?

If it's 128Kbps ogg they want, it's 128Kbps ogg they get.
Most people find it a little better than Mp3 at the same bitrate.

I would suggest giving them uncompressed versions as well, any lossy
format, particularly at a low bitrate, is useless as a master.

Post by Winston Rectus
I am using Linux with Ardour hard disk recording system and the Jammin
mastering plugin set.
Apologies for my poor English.
Winston

[J. P. Morris]

Post by Winston Rectus
I have a client who would like all of his work delievered in Ogg format
at 128Kbps.
As I am not too familiar with Ogg I would like to know what others
think of the quality and also the size of the files?
Is Ogg a viable platform or should I suggest something else.?

I'm not sure that you CAN force the Ogg-vorbis system to use a specific
bit-rate, generally it uses a variable bitrate scheme, which generally
gives better result anyway (as with MP3).

One of the things which sold me on Ogg many years ago was that I was able to
detect artifacts in MP3 quite easily, but with Ogg you have to really screw
the quality right down before it starts to go peculiar.

It is also popular with software development, e.g. games or any other
black-box application where you would want compressed audio.. there are
no license fees, and the reference implementation is pretty much in the
public domain so you can just take it and go.

As a rule Linux comes with the Ogg toolset included. You can do a basic
conversion from the command-line as follows:

oggenc input.wav

..and you'll get a shiny 'input.ogg' file in the current directory.
Likewise:

oggenc *.wav

..will convert all .wav files in the current directory to .ogg files.

Setting tags and other metadata is a bit more involved, although it can be
done from the command line.. 'oggenc --help' will tell you how.
When ripping CDs for listening at the PC, I usually use a script and a set
of description files to set the titles.
Of course, you can get GUI utilities to do batch conversions or set the tags
after a previous conversion. I think XMMS will let you edit the tags
graphically.
Ardour may allow you to mix down to Ogg files without needing any conversion
afterwards, I don't know. Audacity does.

Hope that helps,