Restoration of Reel-to-Reel Tapes

[Gary Edstrom]

I have several very old reel-to-reel tapes that I would like to
digitize. While I still have a tape deck that can play them, there is
another bigger problem: The tapes have dried out and squeak as they are
drawn across the playback head.

Is there any hope for them? Is there any service that can restore and
then digitize the tapes? Or are they gone forever?

One of the tapes is 50 years old and has the voice of my sister when she
was just 5 years old. It would be a shame to loose it forever.

Thanks, Gary

[Mike Rivers]

Post by Gary Edstrom
I have several very old reel-to-reel tapes that I would like to
digitize. While I still have a tape deck that can play them, there is
another bigger problem: The tapes have dried out and squeak as they are
drawn across the playback head.
Is there any hope for them? Is there any service that can restore and
then digitize the tapes?

There are people who specialize in this sort of work. It isn't cheap,
but the experts understand that there are many different failure modes
for old tape and figure out the best way to work around the problem.
Baking is the most common solution, but for certain tape, that's
entirely the wrong thing to do. They also don't have just a tape deck,
they have high quality tape decks that are very well maintained and
will play the tape as best as it can be played.

Richard Hess is a good guy. You can contact him at http://www.richardhess.com.
Steve Puntilillo is another, at http://www.sonicraft.com

If you want to try baking the tape and risk ruining it (it's maybe a
20% risk, not knowing anything more about it) there's a good
description of the process at http://www.tangible-technology.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Gary Edstrom
I have several very old reel-to-reel tapes that I would like to
digitize. While I still have a tape deck that can play them, there is
another bigger problem: The tapes have dried out and squeak as they are
drawn across the playback head.

What kind of tapes are they? Give me manufacturers and part numbers,
and hopefully date codes.

Post by Gary Edstrom
Is there any hope for them? Is there any service that can restore and
then digitize the tapes? Or are they gone forever?

Sure, I do this kind of thing all the time.

Post by Gary Edstrom
One of the tapes is 50 years old and has the voice of my sister when she
was just 5 years old. It would be a shame to loose it forever.

What kind of tape is it? If it's fifty years old, it is not suffering
from the "sticky shed syndrome" and you should ignore the people who will
tell you to bake it. It could have any one of a number of loss of lubricant
issues, and if it's from the fifties it could have acetate or PVC backing
with stability problems. Give me the names and numbers on the tape box and
I'll tell you what is likely to have gone wrong and what can be done.
--scott

[Derek Studios]

Try This

Go out and but a fruit dryer. I use a Mr. Cooffee 'Food dehydrator".
That one will fit 10' reels, even 2" tape. For 1/4" put your reel in for
eight hours, More for wider formats, turn if off and let it cool
for at least four more hours. It works well. For me anyway. Make sure to
thoroughly clean the machine continually.
Good Luck


Greg Steele

chief engineer
Derek Studios

Post by Gary Edstrom
I have several very old reel-to-reel tapes that I would like to
digitize. While I still have a tape deck that can play them, there is
another bigger problem: The tapes have dried out and squeak as they are
drawn across the playback head.
Is there any hope for them? Is there any service that can restore and
then digitize the tapes? Or are they gone forever?
One of the tapes is 50 years old and has the voice of my sister when she
was just 5 years old. It would be a shame to loose it forever.
Thanks, Gary
--
Visit my Midway Island home page at http://gbe.dynip.com/Midway
GENEALOGISTS: It's 2003: Do you know where YOUR great
grandparents are?
The above tagline is number 170 in a series of 549. Collect them all!

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Derek Studios
Try This
Go out and but a fruit dryer. I use a Mr. Cooffee 'Food dehydrator".
That one will fit 10' reels, even 2" tape. For 1/4" put your reel in for
eight hours, More for wider formats, turn if off and let it cool
for at least four more hours. It works well. For me anyway. Make sure to
thoroughly clean the machine continually.

This is a good thing if you have sticky shed syndrome, caused by early 1970s
backcoated mastering tapes with urethane binders that are turning to goo.

It will totally destroy acetate tapes from the fifties and sixties, which
are often already too dry and becoming deformed as a result.

Find out what the problem is before you apply a solution. Sticky shed is
a common problem, but it does not apply to tapes other than the backcoated
urethane binder formulations.
--scott

[videochas www.locoworks.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Derek Studios
Try This
Go out and but a fruit dryer. I use a Mr. Cooffee 'Food dehydrator".
That one will fit 10' reels, even 2" tape. For 1/4" put your reel in for
eight hours, More for wider formats, turn if off and let it cool
for at least four more hours. It works well. For me anyway. Make sure to
thoroughly clean the machine continually.

This is a good thing if you have sticky shed syndrome, caused by early 1970s
backcoated mastering tapes with urethane binders that are turning to goo.
It will totally destroy acetate tapes from the fifties and sixties, which
are often already too dry and becoming deformed as a result.
Find out what the problem is before you apply a solution. Sticky shed is
a common problem, but it does not apply to tapes other than the backcoated
urethane binder formulations.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I had some tapes from the sixties that shed heavily and would squeal
as they played. After a spirited exchange on this very newsgroup I
took what seemed to be the best advice and bought a silicone cloth at
a gunshop (it was camo, but that may not be important) and wound the
tape over it several times, rotating the cloth each time. The
shedding oxide was deposited on the cloth and a light coating of
silicone was deposited on the tape. Problem solved! The tape played
fine. As a sidelight, some reels of Scotch 290 from the same era
played beautifully with no doctoring needed. But, YMMV.

[Ivan Katz]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Derek Studios
Try This
Go out and but a fruit dryer. I use a Mr. Cooffee 'Food dehydrator".
That one will fit 10' reels, even 2" tape. For 1/4" put your reel in
for eight hours, More for wider formats, turn if off and let it cool
for at least four more hours. It works well. For me anyway. Make sure
to thoroughly clean the machine continually.

This is a good thing if you have sticky shed syndrome, caused by early
1970s backcoated mastering tapes with urethane binders that are turning
to goo.
It will totally destroy acetate tapes from the fifties and sixties,
which are often already too dry and becoming deformed as a result.
Find out what the problem is before you apply a solution. Sticky shed
is a common problem, but it does not apply to tapes other than the
backcoated urethane binder formulations.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I had some tapes from the sixties that shed heavily and would squeal as
they played. After a spirited exchange on this very newsgroup I took
what seemed to be the best advice and bought a silicone cloth at a
gunshop (it was camo, but that may not be important) and wound the tape
over it several times, rotating the cloth each time. The shedding oxide
was deposited on the cloth and a light coating of silicone was deposited
on the tape. Problem solved! The tape played fine. As a sidelight,
some reels of Scotch 290 from the same era played beautifully with no
doctoring needed. But, YMMV.

I did something similar.
I took a very soft cloth and made a 2 inch square pad out of it.
Then I sprayed silicon oil on the cloth and propped it up right near
where the tape starts to go into the head stack and resting lightly on
the tape.
I kept dripping a slight bit of silicon oil onto the pad every now and
then.

It worked like a champ and didn't harm the machine at all.
I of course gave the machine a good cleaning after the project was done.

Note: These were squealers, not gooey shedders like the Ampex 456/
Grandmaster stuff.

[videochas www.locoworks.com]

Post by Ivan Katz
Note: These were squealers, not gooey shedders like the Ampex 456/
Grandmaster stuff.

Yes, squealers. Mine were old brown shinyback.

[s***@changethisparttohardbat.com]

videochas www.locoworks.com <***@aol.com> wrote:
: > Note: These were squealers, not gooey shedders like the Ampex 456/
: > Grandmaster stuff.
: Yes, squealers. Mine were old brown shinyback.

But doesn't sticky-shed cause squealing too?

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by s***@changethisparttohardbat.com
: > Note: These were squealers, not gooey shedders like the Ampex 456/
: > Grandmaster stuff.
: Yes, squealers. Mine were old brown shinyback.
But doesn't sticky-shed cause squealing too?

Yes, but it's very evident when it's sticky shed because there is white
gooey gunk everywhere in the tape path. This is not the case with loss
of lubricant issues.

Richard Hess has a paper on the subject that details most of the known
tape failure modes.
--scott

[Ivan Katz]

Post by Scott Dorsey

were squealers, not gooey shedders like the Ampex 456/ : > Grandmaster
stuff.
: Yes, squealers. Mine were old brown shinyback.
But doesn't sticky-shed cause squealing too?

Yes, but it's very evident when it's sticky shed because there is white
gooey gunk everywhere in the tape path. This is not the case with loss
of lubricant issues.
Richard Hess has a paper on the subject that details most of the known
tape failure modes.
--scott

+1

One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape path,
why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

[Mike Rivers]

Post by Ivan Katz
One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape path,
why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

The tape, when it's squealing, is vibrating like a violin string being
pulled by a bow. This causes both amplitude (as it's bouncing off the
head) and frequency (as it jerks along rather than moving smoothly)
modulation of the induced electrical current as the magnetic field
(recorded on the tape) moves across the head gap.

[Ivan Katz]

Post by Mike Rivers

Post by Ivan Katz
One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape
path, why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

The tape, when it's squealing, is vibrating like a violin string being
pulled by a bow. This causes both amplitude (as it's bouncing off the
head) and frequency (as it jerks along rather than moving smoothly)
modulation of the induced electrical current as the magnetic field
(recorded on the tape) moves across the head gap.

Gotcha!!
I figured it was something like that, but was never really sure.
FWIW squeeky cassette tapes (usually crap Supertape stuff left in the car
etc) were the worst for that!

[Paul Stamler]

Post by Ivan Katz

Post by Mike Rivers
The tape, when it's squealing, is vibrating like a violin string being
pulled by a bow. This causes both amplitude (as it's bouncing off the
head) and frequency (as it jerks along rather than moving smoothly)
modulation of the induced electrical current as the magnetic field
(recorded on the tape) moves across the head gap.

Gotcha!!
I figured it was something like that, but was never really sure.
FWIW squeeky cassette tapes (usually crap Supertape stuff left in the car
etc) were the worst for that!

Bad cassettes can also have bad slip-sheets, the flat doohickeys in the
cassette shell that the tape spools ride against. And they can have pad
pressure pads as well, or idlers that squeal.

Peace,
Paul

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Paul Stamler

Post by Ivan Katz

Post by Mike Rivers
The tape, when it's squealing, is vibrating like a violin string being
pulled by a bow. This causes both amplitude (as it's bouncing off the
head) and frequency (as it jerks along rather than moving smoothly)
modulation of the induced electrical current as the magnetic field
(recorded on the tape) moves across the head gap.

Gotcha!!
I figured it was something like that, but was never really sure.
FWIW squeeky cassette tapes (usually crap Supertape stuff left in the car
etc) were the worst for that!

Bad cassettes can also have bad slip-sheets, the flat doohickeys in the
cassette shell that the tape spools ride against. And they can have pad
pressure pads as well, or idlers that squeal.

Also, a lot of them wind up with slightly deformed shells, especially if
they have been left in the car. I found the SHAPE high precision shells
were actually the worst for that... they were very accurate when new, but
they got instantly damaged when left in a hot car. I got lots of returns.
The cheap generic white shells from Tape Warehouse actually seemed to
survive abuse better.

If you encounter squealing cassettes today, the FIRST thing to do is take
the tape out and transplant it into a SHAPE shell with new slip sheets
and rollers. In most cases, the squealing turns out to be an issue with
the cassette and not the tape.
--scott

[Peter Larsen]

Post by Mike Rivers

Post by Ivan Katz
One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape
path, why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

The tape, when it's squealing, is vibrating like a violin string being
pulled by a bow. This causes both amplitude (as it's bouncing off the
head) and frequency (as it jerks along rather than moving smoothly)
modulation of the induced electrical current as the magnetic field
(recorded on the tape) moves across the head gap.

It is important to be aware of this and stop the transfer attempt because
the vibration of the tape leads to friction heating of the contact point
with the head stack, and thus the risk of head damage in the gap zone.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Ivan Katz
One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape path,
why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

The tape is alternately sticking and unsticking, like a violin string
sticking and unsticking to the bow. This causes it to start jumping
forward and back, like a violin string... and when it does that enough
to affect tape-head contact, it modulates the signals.

Flutter idlers on tape machines are designed to break up the modes of
the mechanical tape resonances and reduce these problems during normal
operation, but when the tape gets sticky, they are not enough.
--scott

[Ivan Katz]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Ivan Katz
One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape path,
why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

The tape is alternately sticking and unsticking, like a violin string
sticking and unsticking to the bow. This causes it to start jumping
forward and back, like a violin string... and when it does that enough
to affect tape-head contact, it modulates the signals.
Flutter idlers on tape machines are designed to break up the modes of
the mechanical tape resonances and reduce these problems during normal
operation, but when the tape gets sticky, they are not enough. --scott

10-4..
Thanks Scott and Mike!!

[Paul Stamler]

Post by Ivan Katz
One thing I have never understood is that if the screeching is
mechanical, meaning dried lubricant causing friction over the tape path,
why/how does the scquealing also end up in the signal?

It frequency-modulates the signal because the squeal consists of rapid
changes in the tape speed as it sticks then lets go and slips a bit.

Peace,
Paul

[Mike Rivers]

Post by s***@changethisparttohardbat.com
But doesn't sticky-shed cause squealing too?

It can, but you have to learn to recognize what each different kind of
squeak means. Just like on a car.

Just like Click and Clack, the Car Talk guys, we'll ask you to make
the squeak noise over the telephone and we'll tell you what your
problem is.